{"id":15746,"date":"2023-11-16T20:27:36","date_gmt":"2023-11-16T14:57:36","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/?p=15746"},"modified":"2023-11-16T20:27:36","modified_gmt":"2023-11-16T14:57:36","slug":"episode-72-ajay-shah-on-the-dangers-of-digital-public-infrastructure","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/episodes\/2023\/11\/16\/episode-72-ajay-shah-on-the-dangers-of-digital-public-infrastructure\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 72: Ajay Shah on the Dangers of Digital Public Infrastructure"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"iframe-class\" src=\"https:\/\/html5-player.libsyn.com\/embed\/episode\/id\/28671783\/height\/90\/width\/640\/theme\/custom\/autonext\/no\/thumbnail\/yes\/autoplay\/no\/preload\/no\/no_addthis\/no\/direction\/backward\/render-playlist\/no\/custom-color\/ff1018\/\" width=\"100%\" height=\"90\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"yes\"><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; 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width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><\/iframe><\/p>\n<div id=\"block-yui_3_17_2_1_1531700257624_130235\" class=\"sqs-block html-block sqs-block-html\" data-block-type=\"2\">\n<div class=\"sqs-block-content\">\n<div id=\"block-yui_3_17_2_1_1560137275805_230172\" class=\"sqs-block html-block sqs-block-html\" data-block-type=\"2\">\n<div class=\"sqs-block-content\">\n<p>Digital Public Infrastructure sounds like a huge step forward for the world &#8212; till you think about how it empowers the state to oppress the people. Ajay Shah joins\u00a0<span class=\"il\">Vasant<\/span>\u00a0Dhar in episode 72 of Brave New World to warn that we are not being wary enough of state coercion when we think of this incredible technology.<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<div><b>Useful resources<\/b>:<br \/>\n1.\u00a0Ajay Shah on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/ajay_shah\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/twitter.com\/ajay_shah&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw33JV_fG7cC7ytElFT2mR0v\">Twitter<\/a>\u00a0and\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/ajayshah.substack.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=http:\/\/ajayshah.substack.com\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3ERaNX9OEd5yiHNmRX4NBX\">Substack<\/a>.<br \/>\n2.\u00a0<i><a href=\"https:\/\/a.co\/d\/eRfKphT\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/a.co\/d\/eRfKphT&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0qzNNI6d0bHjNvMNdBpxAO\">In Service of the Republic: The Art and Science of Economic Policy<\/a><\/i>\u00a0&#8212; Vijay Kelkar and Ajay Shah.<br \/>\n3.\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@amitvarma\/videos\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@amitvarma\/videos&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0UydgFHHyJ_EdNuvJoM1_U\">Everything is Everything<\/a>\u00a0&#8212; Ajay Shah&#8217;s YouTube show, co-hosted by Amit Varma.<br \/>\n4.\u00a0Episodes of The Seen and the Unseen with Ajay Shah:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2019\/4\/29\/episode-118-zombie-firms-and-creative-destruction\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2019\/4\/29\/episode-118-zombie-firms-and-creative-destruction\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2lH5Br-c6e7qpRq3RTaWhX\">1<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2019\/6\/17\/episode-125-the-importance-of-finance\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2019\/6\/17\/episode-125-the-importance-of-finance\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2D0TqktN1nAGVgiavQOH_T\">2<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2020\/1\/6\/episode-154-the-art-and-science-of-economic-policy\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2020\/1\/6\/episode-154-the-art-and-science-of-economic-policy\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0qzR4hEaxPRBInQ2ggz7LO\">3<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2020\/2\/9\/episode-159-the-theatre-of-the-budget\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2020\/2\/9\/episode-159-the-theatre-of-the-budget\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2cvlR3pJfiwe8R0pgbqg37\">4<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2021\/2\/7\/episode-211-the-tragedy-of-our-farm-bills\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2021\/2\/7\/episode-211-the-tragedy-of-our-farm-bills\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3-zvvUWx8iiODdocGqjPn2\">5<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2021\/5\/2\/episode-223-the-economics-and-politics-of-vaccines\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2021\/5\/2\/episode-223-the-economics-and-politics-of-vaccines\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2_vWgKhHuonagp6rI5UeDi\">6<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2021\/8\/9\/episode-237-the-importance-of-the-1991-reforms\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2021\/8\/9\/episode-237-the-importance-of-the-1991-reforms\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1093tX39tZ8ZkEyeTiD617\">7<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2022\/5\/23\/episode-278-climate-change-and-our-power-sector\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2022\/5\/23\/episode-278-climate-change-and-our-power-sector\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw24NzJbKXmCGA_yaDOGbAiG\">8<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2023\/3\/20\/episode-321-josh-felman-tries-to-make-sense-of-the-world\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2023\/3\/20\/episode-321-josh-felman-tries-to-make-sense-of-the-world\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3c5pXBwgJNLse1VxyqVa_f\">9<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2023\/4\/3\/episode-323-svb-banking-and-the-state-of-the-economy\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2023\/4\/3\/episode-323-svb-banking-and-the-state-of-the-economy\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3OUdT5tjjSihYz2p89gdlx\">10<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2023\/6\/26\/episode-335-a-deep-dive-into-ukraine-vs-russia\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2023\/6\/26\/episode-335-a-deep-dive-into-ukraine-vs-russia\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2nsLNocgGW1bxPv_7KDykE\">11<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2023\/8\/14\/episode-342-vitalik-buterin-fights-the-dragon-tyrant\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2023\/8\/14\/episode-342-vitalik-buterin-fights-the-dragon-tyrant\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3qdXd81fOJYyYjfC61Dnko\">12<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2023\/9\/18\/episode-347-indias-massive-pensions-crisis\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/seenunseen.in\/episodes\/2023\/9\/18\/episode-347-indias-massive-pensions-crisis\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0rNjAjn0QHu16htiDV2_5k\">13<\/a>.<br \/>\n5.\u00a0<i><a href=\"https:\/\/a.co\/d\/c3P6epB\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/a.co\/d\/c3P6epB&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3DweVZ-xd2MOZsMmhmSpeQ\">Imagining India<\/a><\/i>\u00a0&#8212; Nandan Nilekani.<br \/>\n6.\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/episodes\/2021\/06\/24\/episode-15-indias-new-export-a-more-egalitarian-internet\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/episodes\/2021\/06\/24\/episode-15-indias-new-export-a-more-egalitarian-internet\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw18oTNNyMIbasa6Cv1QgqkO\">Nandan Nilekani on an Egalitarian Internet<\/a>\u00a0&#8212; Episode 15 of Brave New World.<br \/>\n7.\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/episodes\/2022\/01\/06\/episode-29-albert-wenger-on-the-world-after-capital\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/episodes\/2022\/01\/06\/episode-29-albert-wenger-on-the-world-after-capital\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0mYusxY0Dd7Tw7a6jbK8-U\">Albert Wenger on the World After Capital<\/a>\u00a0&#8212; Episode 29 of Brave New World.<br \/>\n8.\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/episodes\/2021\/08\/19\/episode-19-james-robinson-on-what-makes-a-successful-state\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/episodes\/2021\/08\/19\/episode-19-james-robinson-on-what-makes-a-successful-state\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1dsdnUzPw8RF4XPSDa_8bz\">James Robinson on What Makes a Successful State<\/a>\u00a0\u2014 Episode 19 of Brave New World.<br \/>\n9.\u00a0<i><a href=\"https:\/\/a.co\/d\/cQb99Lw\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/a.co\/d\/cQb99Lw&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0nCcTApWgrEA--lx3NtOvA\">The Narrow Corridor<\/a><\/i>\u00a0\u2014 \u00a0Daron Acemoglu and James Robinson.<br \/>\n10.\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=Ohkw2zoHZ5w\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v%3DOhkw2zoHZ5w&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1sKuPbBJI9Y_97dBgu67BE\">Is the Singularity Near?<\/a>\u00a0&#8212; Episode 2 of Everything is Everything.<br \/>\n11. <a href=\"https:\/\/a.co\/d\/ebKPfGj\"><em>1984<\/em><\/a>\u00a0&#8212; George Orwell.<\/p>\n<p>Check out\u00a0<b><a href=\"https:\/\/vasantdhar.substack.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/vasantdhar.substack.com\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1700232442375000&amp;usg=AOvVaw31g267Tl0TBoSfYp5DEIXT\"><span class=\"il\">Vasant<\/span>\u00a0Dhar\u2019s newsletter<\/a><\/b>\u00a0on Substack. Subscription is free!<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"shariff\" data-twitter-via=\"vasantdhar\" data-title=\"Episode 72: Ajay Shah on the Dangers of Digital Public Infrastructure\" data-info-url=\"http:\/\/ct.de\/-2467514\" data-backend-url=\"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/wp-content\/plugins\/shariff-sharing\/backend\/index.php\" data-temp=\"\/tmp\" data-ttl=\"60\" data-service=\"tl\" data-services='[\"facebook\",\"twitter\",\"linkedin\",\"whatsapp\"]' data-image=\"\" data-url=\"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/episodes\/2023\/11\/16\/episode-72-ajay-shah-on-the-dangers-of-digital-public-infrastructure\/\" data-lang=\"en\" data-theme=\"grey\" data-orientation=\"horizontal\"><\/div>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff Digital Public Infrastructure sounds like a huge step forward for the world &#8212; till you think about how it empowers the state to oppress the people. Ajay Shah joins\u00a0Vasant\u00a0Dhar in episode 72 of Brave New World to warn that we are not being wary enough of state coercion when we think of this incredible &#8230; <\/p>\n<p class=\"read-more-container\"><a title=\"Episode 72: Ajay Shah on the Dangers of Digital Public Infrastructure\" class=\"read-more button\" href=\"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/episodes\/2023\/11\/16\/episode-72-ajay-shah-on-the-dangers-of-digital-public-infrastructure\/\" aria-label=\"More on Episode 72: Ajay Shah on the Dangers of Digital Public Infrastructure\">Read show notes<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[157],"tags":[230],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15746"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=15746"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15746\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":15747,"href":"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15746\/revisions\/15747"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=15746"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=15746"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/bravenewpodcast.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=15746"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}